LG: First of all, I want to thank you for your time and for agreeing to speak with me. In the hour prior to meeting with you, I was given a first-hand account by a teacher at a private military school and college that a classroom had recently been converted, dedicated, and consecrated as a prayer room for Muslim students. This occurred after school hours and without any teacher or parental input. How common is this?
Frank Gaffney: I think you will find that this kind of incremental civilization jihad is occurring, not only in academic institutions, but in the financial sector, the media, military, and government. You will find that each of these areas has been subjected to ‘influence operations’ in which people demand some kind of concession or accommodation. It usually starts in an innocuous way but, inevitably; they become more aggressive.
LG: By bringing it to light, what can people do once they are aware of the actions of the school administration or, for that matter, in any sector you mentioned?
Frank Gaffney: Here’s the point. Getting rid of people who engineered this is a necessary step but, mark my words, they will turn this into a national controversy if anyone tries to do this. A friend of mine is on the board of a military academy in Vermont, actually a college, where the administration had an applicant who they knew was Muslim. She was accepted by the school and then announced after her acceptance that she wanted to wear the hijab under her uniform as one of the cadets. They (the administration) wrestled with this for a very brief period of time and decided they would make this accommodation. Her father, it turns out, holds the number two position in CAIR in Florida. This is a perfect example of how this works. Nobody had ever done that before, somebody is now asking for it, and they (the administration) worry that if they don’t do it they will be sued by the Justice Department or have other problems. It’s much easier to go along with it…until the next demand.
LG: In your opinion, why do jihadists hate the Western world so much?
Frank Gaffney: That was a question introduced right after 9/11. The truth of the matter is that they hate us because they are indoctrinated in the belief that inevitably we are to be subordinated to them. Getting from here to there is just a matter of tactics and time and if they can do it violently that’s the most efficient way. If they can’t, because at the moment we are too strong, then they will try to change perceptions through various techniques to bring us around to the point where they can accomplish this goal of subordination.
LG: In the panel discussion, you discussed NAIT. Please explain what it is and its purpose.
Frank Gaffney: NAIT is a basic mechanism. For example, the German government expressed concern over how many people were coming into their country so the Saudi government said, “We will build you 200 mosques to accommodate them”. NAIT is a vehicle that the Muslim Brotherhood created as an offshoot of their largest front organization called the Islamic Society of North America. Its purpose is essentially to work as a pass-through for funding. The Saudis will put money into the Muslim World League which then makes grants to the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) to enable it to either build or take-over mosques. Their mortgages, their financing, and everything else that goes along with it is funded by this organization.
One of my friends actually had two of his mosques that he helped establish taken over by NAIT. He believed the form of Islam being presented was the way it should be practiced and he was comfortable with the program. The next thing you know, he was not welcome there because it had become a Sharia adherent program. Unfortunately, this case is just systematic of the infrastructure building by NAIT that happens to mosques in the Islamic tradition. They aren’t houses of worship anymore or, at least, exclusively houses of worship. Mosques are being used for community political activities and, in quite a number of cases, have become places where people are being trained and recruited to jihad. The French and the Belgians have both recently stumbled into this. Some are being used as arsenals, literally, with stocked weapons. My feeling about it is, as I made the point earlier, is that when you look at how these jihadists who have engaged in so-called “lone wolf” activities, you will find that they were all tied to one or another of these type of mosques.
LG: So, would you consider NAIT a type of satellite system?
Frank Gaffney: It is more than a satellite system. They are incubators. It is what you will get a lot more of as they feel more emboldened. For example, what little surveillance activity that was being done by the NYPD was cancelled by Mayor De Blasio. These are the type of actions that’s really putting us at risk, I’m afraid. These decisions are not only creating an opportunity for jihadism to grow, but they are also giving an incentive to have more people engaged–confident in the knowledge that they will get away with it.
LG: What should one primarily know about the tactics of jihadis?
Frank Gaffney: This is one of the most important take-aways: Whether we dress it up as political correctness or as multiculturalism or as sensitivity to diversity or as giving people their “safe spaces”, whatever we think of it, there is another term used by the jihadis and that is “submission”. When they see “infidels” submitting, they have, under this doctrine of Sharia, a very clear mandated response to redouble the effort, as the Quran puts it, to make them feel more subdued. The object of the exercise is submission.